tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post3574797202817744678..comments2024-03-25T21:52:03.310-05:00Comments on Hill Cantons: Dumping the Black Box of Roleplaying Game DesignChris Kutalikhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01414743509426875792noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-65778280582423284772011-10-23T11:47:10.262-05:002011-10-23T11:47:10.262-05:00One of the things that made me really like the fou...One of the things that made me really like the fourth edition of GURPS was the inclusion of sidebar discussions titled "How GURPS Works", each discussing why design decisions were made. For instance, in <i>GURPS Martial Arts</i> we find "How GURPS Works: 'Stun' vs. 'Real' Injury" (chosen because that is the book in front of me, and that's the first such discussion I found right now), with a discussion of why there is no fundamental difference of damage type in the game between punches and weapons, taking direct aim at HERO System's "STUN" rules.faoladhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03691952430041394614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-14499940698230490682011-10-18T16:41:20.372-05:002011-10-18T16:41:20.372-05:00As much as all the talk was about the tag system (...As much as all the talk was about the tag system (which is great), the standout part to me in Stars Without Number was the couple of pages of Designer's Notes. They went in a slightly different direction, in explaining the whys of the design, but then peeling the system back a little and showing how the GM could change the parts and how that would effect the rest of the game.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-57188566414301701562011-10-18T10:08:07.206-05:002011-10-18T10:08:07.206-05:00It was also reflective of a time when it was possi...It was also reflective of a time when it was possible to actually know the designers of the games you played, and the hobby was sufficiently small that conventions were as much about seeing old friends (i.e. EVERYBODY at the con) was playing games.Victor Raymondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05928494560036528653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-67371799639500078612011-10-17T20:08:33.127-05:002011-10-17T20:08:33.127-05:00I notice that none of those quoted explanations co...I notice that none of those quoted explanations contains any acceptance of the possibility that the writer's (or GM's) own social prejudices and social milieu might be influencing their game, or the ways in which this might happen. It's implicit in the DMG explanation but the C&S one seems to be claiming that their feudal world is an objective representation of reality ('simulationist' as you say). That's highly unlikely!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-4938648459693005542011-10-17T14:21:30.445-05:002011-10-17T14:21:30.445-05:00I love designers notes and getting a chance to lea...I love designers notes and getting a chance to learn why things were done one way and not another. Such fun.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-83767067059416534792011-10-17T10:25:00.126-05:002011-10-17T10:25:00.126-05:00Great post Chris. I find myself in total agreemen...Great post Chris. I find myself in total agreement with the quoted passage from the DMG.<br /><br />Its an issue I think ACKS faces; the assumptions there being designed around the setting, usually top down, may be making certain sections difficult or impossible to translate into other mileaus. <br /><br />If it helps your C&S confliction (heh) the trouble with<br /><br />"Feudalism] also has the virtue of being a real way of life, existing for well over 1000 years in Europe...The feudal system was a working culture, and thus it can be used to very good effect as a model on which to base a fantasy role playing culture that will also work, often to the finest detail.”<br /><br />Is the clear assumption that 1000 years of European feudal history are perfectly well understood, agreed upon "to the finest detail", and can be consistently modeled by any competent game designer. That's almost laughably naive, but perhaps forgiveable given the positivism prevelant in historical narratives of the time.DHBoggshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02170439175265397893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-32412406836755721862011-10-17T09:56:08.511-05:002011-10-17T09:56:08.511-05:00@Oakes
True on all those points, plus there was th...@Oakes<br />True on all those points, plus there was the big factor of actually learning a lot about the period the game covered. <br /><br />I went and opened AH's Kingmaker this morning just to make sure I wasn't talking out of my ass. Sure enough in tight 8-point font there is two dense long pages of historical notes followed by a page and a half of designers note. <br /><br />And what a jam packed discussion of the War of the Roses, civil wars in general, and the mechanics/design choices to model all of them.Chris Kutalikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01414743509426875792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-23825559397599775282011-10-17T09:28:41.757-05:002011-10-17T09:28:41.757-05:00Fascinating discussion. I also went first to the ...Fascinating discussion. I also went first to the back of those SPI games. Part of the reason too was that the notes quickly imparted what was important about the game--which rules mechanics were key, for example--and thus better prepared your brain for slogging through that 20 (or 50) page rule book, as well as even then giving you hints as to strategy.Oakes Spaldinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08078500142758654392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-83339201336733151602011-10-17T05:48:05.386-05:002011-10-17T05:48:05.386-05:00It was the game designer talking to you directly a...<i>It was the game designer talking to you directly as a critically-thinking peer, not just as a consumer of the game.</i><br /><br />Truth. In the current era there's simply no excuse for <i>ex cathedra</i> game design. <br /><br />"Because I say so" simply isn't good enough.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04072272223837426211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-77874858796492127552011-10-16T19:48:25.468-05:002011-10-16T19:48:25.468-05:00I remember the early Paranoia RPG boxed set having...I remember the early Paranoia RPG boxed set having designer's notes as well -- it blew my mind that it was designed to run counter to the "dead character -- roll up a new one" experience of D&D. At the same time, the game seemed to run counter to the concept of campaigns with the same characters, given the adventure types and body count.Alex Osiashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14851139031311819958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-8670228811698529652011-10-16T17:26:00.741-05:002011-10-16T17:26:00.741-05:00@Kelvin
That's a positive development, I will ...@Kelvin<br />That's a positive development, I will have to take a look at the new SW as I am looking for ways to present this kind of designer's voice.<br /><br />@Anarkeith<br />I like how you put this hidden strength of classical and neo-classical games. One of my frustrations with the black box is that I can't bring in all that great melange of things I have thought, read, and struggled around in four decades of my life as easily as I can with the older "platforms".Chris Kutalikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01414743509426875792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-13967453013319255062011-10-16T15:10:00.469-05:002011-10-16T15:10:00.469-05:00Great series of posts, and really thought-provokin...Great series of posts, and really thought-provoking. I find the trend among players is to rely very heavily on what is explicitly stated in rule books. The idea of having some background knowledge in history, or fantasy literature, for example, is not as integral to the experience.<br /><br />That said, I think that's one of the reasons that the OSR has arisen. There are many players with years of experience with history, literature, and gaming, who are not satisfied with the limits and structures imposed by the mechanically "balanced" ecosystems of modern games.Keith Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00059044388944936192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-62924696671852409992011-10-16T12:46:11.879-05:002011-10-16T12:46:11.879-05:00It's perhaps worth mentioning that the new Sav...It's perhaps worth mentioning that the new <i>Savage Worlds</i> edition is full of designers' notes spread throughout the text, not only explaining how certain rules work, but why they were designed in such a way. That said, <i>Savage Worlds</i> has always had a strong -- if somewhat anonymous -- authorial voice, so it's not much of a stretch.thekelvingreenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01928260185408072124noreply@blogger.com