tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post7051274145252779531..comments2024-02-26T09:25:10.518-06:00Comments on Hill Cantons: The Arneson Hoard and the Public DomainChris Kutalikhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01414743509426875792noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-31063896479125632882012-05-27T18:45:32.477-05:002012-05-27T18:45:32.477-05:00Dang, I was wrong. Dave did INDEED leave instruct...Dang, I was wrong. Dave did INDEED leave instructions, but they were not followed, and his collection was indeed jettisoned.<br /><br />I was wrong.<br />I was wrong.<br />I was wrong.<br /><br />Anything I tell you three times is true.<br />Anything I tell you three times is true.Michael (Gronan) Mornardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09581843850302136770noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-42191407348732494572012-05-07T19:23:51.186-05:002012-05-07T19:23:51.186-05:00That's good to hear. I was trying to mobilize...That's good to hear. I was trying to mobilize the meager fundraising power of the Play Generated Map and Document Archive to try and acquire some of the choicest items for public sharing. This makes things less urgent.<br /><br />tim h<br />plagmada.orgtim hhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17183259514061707097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-44996461198244199952012-05-07T11:45:16.085-05:002012-05-07T11:45:16.085-05:00Alas, we're too late for a kickstarter, I thin...Alas, we're too late for a kickstarter, I think. This should have become a fixed archive and Kickstarter would've been the perfect platform for making it happen.richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13517340075234811323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-88019184555723307372012-05-06T22:39:41.871-05:002012-05-06T22:39:41.871-05:00I'll second Jeremy's assessment of Paul, w...I'll second Jeremy's assessment of Paul, whom I've known since the middle '90s. Paul straddles the collector-gamer-historian-archivist roles with ease and skill, and is friendly, approachable, and has a love of the hobby that's authentic.<br /><br />Michael Cox may not be as well-known now as Paul is, but has been involved in online collecting for a very long time as well, and has an excellent reputation as both a collector and gaming historian. <br /><br />I posted this on ENWorld in a similar discussion:<br /><br />===<br />Folks: there's actually a lot personal research time, collecting experience, and appreciation for this collection being brought to bear by both Michael Cox at the Dragon's Trove and Paul Stormberg at The Collector's Trove. Both a long-time gamers, with deep knowledge of and love for the hobby. Both have shelled out considerable time and effort and money to catalog and preserve this collection, in addition to auctioning off its contents. Paul has also stated publicly that he plans to share the proceeds from the auction with Dave's heirs.<br /><br />In short, Paul and Michael are not the bad guys some folks are looking for.<br />===<br /><br />I'm heartened to hear that the manuscripts and related materials will be scanned to preserve them, which is SOP for Paul's handling of such auctions these days. Perhaps Dave's family will decide to publish the materials, eventually, which would be a wonderful boon for all lovers of the early history of our hobby.<br /><br />Allan.grodoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11800184312511280050noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-31532469805556055692012-05-06T13:56:39.993-05:002012-05-06T13:56:39.993-05:00Posted about this on my blog you are not alone in ...Posted about this on my blog you are not alone in this.<br /><br />ERIC!ERIC!https://www.blogger.com/profile/18251132223571608976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-12968411302021578372012-05-06T07:07:54.077-05:002012-05-06T07:07:54.077-05:00I would very much like to see something like this....I would very much like to see something like this. Alot of people in the past have been very critical of Arneson's notes and such, but I personally suspect that they have been asking the "wrong" questions.Havard:https://www.blogger.com/profile/03672640381532559035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-58632558230038421652012-05-06T00:14:41.528-05:002012-05-06T00:14:41.528-05:00I'd rather see the material go into the sealed...I'd rather see the material go into the sealed vaults of collectors than the dumpster of a storage facility, but the best possible outcome would be for the everything to be made widely available for study and enjoyment. I'll buy most PDF's released by the Tekumel Foundation, and would be happy to have the chance to buy scans of rarities like the Domesday newsletters or unpublished Arneson materials.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12096724870715714696noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-42740722310571448492012-05-05T20:53:02.816-05:002012-05-05T20:53:02.816-05:00The copyrights to any manuscripts would still be o...The copyrights to any manuscripts would still be owned by Dave's heirs.Dan of Earthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04957424338566461756noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-52416014266357688962012-05-05T19:59:57.451-05:002012-05-05T19:59:57.451-05:00It's a unclear from the article who stands to ...It's a unclear from the article who stands to gain the most from the auction. <br /><br />Parsing it from the article you get the impression that the family lost possession of it when the fees weren't paid and it went to a local auction company. The Cox and Stormberg bought it from them so they wouldn't chuck it. <br /><br />The article says: "Both Stormberg and Cox’s companies will get commission, as is standard practice in auctions. Stormberg stressed that he plans to return certain personal family items to the heirs and to donate some materials to educational institutions."<br /><br />So does the family get significant amount from the sale? Do you happen to know, Michael?Chris Kutalikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01414743509426875792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-42130949537742006412012-05-05T19:58:13.359-05:002012-05-05T19:58:13.359-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Chris Kutalikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01414743509426875792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-9697954014031867302012-05-05T19:13:07.151-05:002012-05-05T19:13:07.151-05:00i was referring to a paragraph from the linked to ...i was referring to a paragraph from the linked to article:<br /><br />“An unforeseen turn of events” is how Paul J. Stormberg, founder of The Collector’s Trove, an Omaha-based online auction agent, described how his company came to auction the items. “The management of the collection apparently became too much for Dave’s heirs to handle and they abandoned it in a storage locker.” The storage facility’s owner tried to contact the heirs to no avail, leaving the “fate of the collection in the hands of others.”Tenkarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05159289652051155824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-89649634612860489882012-05-05T17:26:23.641-05:002012-05-05T17:26:23.641-05:00The fact remains that unless the collection, or at...The fact remains that unless the collection, or at least significant portions of it, is made available to the public in some way (print or pdf), yet another chunk of priceless RPG history will effectively be locked away from public view. This would be the case even if copies are made available for study by those who can physically travel to them. History belongs to us all. It's a shame when people think history should come under copyright or belong solely to the privileged few.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-37106441490141198572012-05-05T16:43:03.293-05:002012-05-05T16:43:03.293-05:00Thanks for chiming in Jeremy, especially to give u...Thanks for chiming in Jeremy, especially to give us some insight on who is running this. I think it's wrongheaded to blanket denounce collectors based on my experience (though there really are some who are fully deserving of it). From your account Paul sounds like a stand-up guy. <br /><br />"I think I can safely say that seeing this wealth of information fade into obscurity forever is not among his motives."<br /><br />I sincerely hope this happens.Chris Kutalikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01414743509426875792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-33625469415454956042012-05-05T16:20:25.735-05:002012-05-05T16:20:25.735-05:00"It was his intention to use this to help pro..."It was his intention to use this to help provide for his family."<br />I completely respect that and it wasn't my intention with the post to belittle those wishes. <br /><br />I am just saddened by the possibility of seeing his work pass into a sealed collector's vault. It may not, but it would be loss to many of us if it did.Chris Kutalikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01414743509426875792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-67296538838114487762012-05-05T16:19:31.872-05:002012-05-05T16:19:31.872-05:00I normally don't chime in on such weighty issu...I normally don't chime in on such weighty issues, and I'm certainly no expert on the matter, but I'll make an exception today:<br /><br />On the contrary, I believe we are very lucky that the collection - seemingly by pure chance - made it's way into the possession of Paul Stormberg. Yes, he deals in selling gaming rarities for insane dollar amounts to collectors, but he is also a gamer himself.<br /><br />This dude drove a giant sand table and hundreds of pounds of sand from Nebraska to Lake Geneva so it could be used to run games in the tradition of Gary's basement. I hung out for quite a while for a Chainmail scenario he was running. He not only taught the game, but he also spent the time teaching all the players and spectators things we've learned about the early days of the hobby. He had a great set of miniatures and old toys, and was telling us about how there were no monster figures back then, so they would use what was available and make modifications, like painting them green to make ogres, taking 72mm figures and adding clubs for giants, modifying plastic stegosaurus toys to make them into dragons, etc. He even had the exact toy that was the inspiration for the original rust monster.<br /><br />This man is not just some grubby dude with dollar signs in his eyes with a deathgrip on collectible items. He has a genuine love for the game and the history of the hobby, and it is something he wants to share with others. If you ever get the opportunity to meet him, I suggest you spend some time talking with him, and you'll see what I mean. His enthusiasm will become evident in mere moments.<br /><br />Now, I read that he is archiving (scanning) all the stuff, or has done so already. Even though Arneson's heirs effectively abandoned their claim to this stuff (in my mind anyways) I <i>think</i> that one of the goals is to give them the opportunity to benefit from the publication of some of this stuff. To me this seems reasonable and in the spirit of what Dave wanted. I think we'll have to see where that leads before we really know what comes next.<br /><br />At any rate, from what I do know based on my interactions with Paul Stormberg, I think I can safely say that seeing this wealth of information fade into obscurity forever is <i>not</i> among his motives.Jeremy Deramhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13166744272459044563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-11795429405219256092012-05-05T16:07:27.964-05:002012-05-05T16:07:27.964-05:00Dave gave very explicit directions on what his fam...Dave gave very explicit directions on what his family was to do with this collection, and they are doing exactly what he wanted. It was his intention to use this to help provide for his family.<br /><br />He told me this himself approximately two weeks before his passing. Victor Raymond of Tekumel Foundation was there with me.<br /><br />Dave's family did not "abandon" his collection. People not in possession of facts should keep their ignorant opinions to themselves.<br /><br />Dave was my friend, as was his granddaughter.Michael (Gronan) Mornardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09581843850302136770noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-58589439785811765592012-05-05T16:06:24.003-05:002012-05-05T16:06:24.003-05:00That's the key question that comes to my mind ...That's the key question that comes to my mind too. The Tekumel Foundation is making a serious effort to do systematic and professional archiving and restoration of all that collected material. So you not only have it being preserved, but organized in an accessibly organized way to be useful to scholars and fans.Chris Kutalikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01414743509426875792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-3230570384099747992012-05-05T16:00:37.091-05:002012-05-05T16:00:37.091-05:00I'm glad to hear that and thank you for making...I'm glad to hear that and thank you for making the effort to reach out to those archiving the material.Chris Kutalikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01414743509426875792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-54348849614296999682012-05-05T15:59:40.091-05:002012-05-05T15:59:40.091-05:00as I understand it the information will be preserv...<i>as I understand it the information will be preserved for everyone.</i><br /><br>What does this mean in practical terms? Will this information be made available in some form for others to see? That's the great thing about the Tékumel Foundation and the way it's preserving Professor Barker's papers: it'll be accessible to others who want to study it. That neither Gygax's nor Arneson's papers will be similarly available is a crying shame.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-64152193484064690652012-05-05T15:34:49.085-05:002012-05-05T15:34:49.085-05:00I am also saddened. However, it is my understandi...I am also saddened. However, it is my understanding that Arneson wanted the collection (or a sizable portion of it) to be sold for the benefit of his heirs. What is happening now perhaps isn't exactly what he intended, but the end result for the rpg community is the same.perdustinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05842738630442736894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-83923269038308288232012-05-05T15:33:46.471-05:002012-05-05T15:33:46.471-05:00Paul Stormberg is Archiving the collection Chris. ...Paul Stormberg is Archiving the collection Chris. The originals will disappear into the void, but who cares its just fragile paper. Exactly how the archived material will be handled is something that has yet to be revealed, (and something I'm talking to him about), but, as I understand it the information will be preserved for everyone.DHBoggshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02170439175265397893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-12901278532193217792012-05-05T15:33:21.842-05:002012-05-05T15:33:21.842-05:00It Dave Arneson had put stipulations in his will t...It Dave Arneson had put stipulations in his will that his collection would be donated upon his death to a group or organization so that it could be treated like gaming history, we wouldn't be having this discussion. He didn't. He left it to his heirs, and they abandoned it.<br /><br />That was his decision. Not one I agree with, but his alone to make.Tenkarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05159289652051155824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-37401652960145430372012-05-05T14:52:26.886-05:002012-05-05T14:52:26.886-05:00You're not the only one who is saddened by thi...You're not the only one who is saddened by this.Jack Guignolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05226738666709754348noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-43884791886467775412012-05-05T14:52:04.025-05:002012-05-05T14:52:04.025-05:00Let's pray it goes to a good home. Wonder if s...Let's pray it goes to a good home. Wonder if somebody could start a Kickstarter to bid on the collection.John Matthew Staterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02310914386482078369noreply@blogger.com