tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post8615194584065571477..comments2024-03-25T21:52:03.310-05:00Comments on Hill Cantons: What Rough Men Tell Us About AD&D's Implied WorldChris Kutalikhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01414743509426875792noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-72060951359870841712012-05-15T09:55:35.169-05:002012-05-15T09:55:35.169-05:00You can add Kham Krum (one of the war lords who he...You can add Kham Krum (one of the war lords who help create Bulgaria) to that list. Truly an epic level bad ass, he eventually took the skull of a Byzantine Emperor as a drinking vessel.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00801468265072232351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-38838878111404849052012-05-04T10:42:25.391-05:002012-05-04T10:42:25.391-05:00I hardly think Evan is a Christian propagandist. I...I hardly think Evan is a Christian propagandist. I think it's important to distinguish between our imaginary worlds and the real one.Chris Kutalikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01414743509426875792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-54412865947529446502012-05-04T09:10:39.286-05:002012-05-04T09:10:39.286-05:00The Berserkers of history were the followers of Od...The Berserkers of history were the followers of Odin who, it is written, were invincible in battle. This is not surprising, with Odin being the god of war and wisdom. It is said that they would fight the enemy and friends alike and even batter aside trees and rocks in their rage. The accounts say that they would leap through fire, swallow hot coals, and even that blades and iron could not hurt them. D&D doesn't really reflect this power, though, it would need to make them about 17+HD to do that (in my opinion).<br /><br />They were hugely problematic, history tells us, when the clans were not at war because they would challenge men to fight over property and wagers and even other warriors did not want to face them in battle. Some of them were said to be able to blunt swords merely by looking at them. Imagine the incredible hulk and you've got the mythic inpsiration for his raging power.<br /><br />Followers of the devil? That's Christian propaganda rearing its ugly head about our pagan pasts again. Such comments should be treated with the derisen they deserve.Pete Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03438651595079082035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-14599714842958485712012-04-28T11:56:53.931-05:002012-04-28T11:56:53.931-05:00Berserkers and Dervishes are usually memestorm inf...Berserkers and Dervishes are usually memestorm infected <a href="http://vaultsofnagoh.blogspot.co.uk/2010/05/memestorms-and-ideocults.html" rel="nofollow">ideocults</a> IMG.<br /><br />"Why all the nomadic loonies Chris?"<br />"Various strains of nomadic loony disease."Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04072272223837426211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-3133741727005925402012-04-28T02:42:38.780-05:002012-04-28T02:42:38.780-05:00I was being flippant about the dervishes. :D
Alth...I was being flippant about the dervishes. :D<br /><br />Although I hadn't thought of them as ecstatic pseudo-christians before. I always associate them with the Master of the Desert Nomads. I wonder how Black Arrow, Red Shield (whichever way round they are) would play out?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10678503778316350427noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-75541520498209375832012-04-27T23:35:13.936-05:002012-04-27T23:35:13.936-05:00Nice post. It validates my own encounter tables...Nice post. It validates my own encounter tables' rationale - though I went with only small groups of humans at lesser chance. Its a place of fear and chaos, where only adventurers and desperadoes dare to tread.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12508594597349248576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-88581841188359247512012-04-27T19:56:56.957-05:002012-04-27T19:56:56.957-05:00To start, two words:
Robin Hood.
The Robin Hood ...To start, two words:<br /><br />Robin Hood.<br /><br />The Robin Hood stories are certainly an influence on the game.<br /><br />And there is another, less obvious source - The Fremen of Dune - were certainly an influence in Blackmoor. And that matters because:<br /><br />Bandits, Nomads and Dervishes, are in D&D because they were first in Blackmoor. Read the FFC entries on each. They are the early drafts on which the D&D entries are based. There were of course no name level or Charisma restriction on gathering followers in Blackmoor - anybody with cash could raise an army - so that is why no rules are given for becoming a bandit chief in D&D. Bandit and Nomad "chiefs" - particularly in the Peshwah - were often contolled by players in Blackmoor.DHBoggshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02170439175265397893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-61793297838238782982012-04-27T18:27:11.577-05:002012-04-27T18:27:11.577-05:00Evan said, I might have to make a random table of ...Evan said, <i>I might have to make a random table of "why are these berserkers berserk?"</i><br /><br />Have one of the reasons be, "Wizards of the Coast just announced another edition change!"Stefan Poaghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08192911890556534923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-43431035350044072592012-04-27T17:58:57.125-05:002012-04-27T17:58:57.125-05:00Just reading about 14th cent. flagellants and thin...<i>Just reading about 14th cent. flagellants and thinking they could make for a berserker culture.</i><br /><br />I might have to make a random table of "why are these berserkers berserk?"Mirandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10745062840676790649noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-67601125880384619512012-04-27T17:54:20.642-05:002012-04-27T17:54:20.642-05:00The funny thing is this all really only kinda-sort...The funny thing is this all really only kinda-sorta fits with the setting logic of the Hill Cantons.Chris Kutalikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01414743509426875792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-5657160852365154082012-04-27T17:51:19.658-05:002012-04-27T17:51:19.658-05:00Mine are crazed, remnants of the Hyperboreans who ...Mine are crazed, remnants of the Hyperboreans who haven't realized that the world has moved on in the last 5000 years. <br /><br />But I like Evan's too. <br /><br />Just reading about 14th cent. flagellants and thinking they could make for a berserker culture.Chris Kutalikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01414743509426875792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-41241036556412054462012-04-27T17:26:20.095-05:002012-04-27T17:26:20.095-05:00I'm generally in agreement with this idea, and...I'm generally in agreement with this idea, and it's had a strong influence on how I design settings. My current S&W game is set in a fantastical version of the Americas circa the 1520's and focuses on the collapse of the native order and the imposition of a pseudo-European one.John Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17318244888477546773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-63708887258712362352012-04-27T17:00:11.115-05:002012-04-27T17:00:11.115-05:00I've been trying to remember the name of that ...I've been trying to remember the name of that film for 5 years! Thank you!! (I had been mistakenly looking it up under Klaus Kinski)migellitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17106614212764056058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-69002555855377695042012-04-27T16:43:56.117-05:002012-04-27T16:43:56.117-05:00There's a funny rule-by-right / rule-by-might ...There's a funny rule-by-right / rule-by-might tension in the rules, now you mention it. We all know hereditary rulers are rarely the toughest guy in the hex (midwestern anti-aristocratic impulse!), but that's presumably because the civilization makes it possible for a 3rd level fighter to command the loyalty of armies. <br /><br />But player characters in and of canton dirt have a much harder time of it as you note. You weren't born with the right to rule large units and definitely don't have the might. Your earned "might" becomes indistinguishable from old-world "right" at name level and then people naturally gravitate toward you. Free army! Tax revenue!<br /><br />Until then, you can buy a caravel off the equipment list or capture one used, but that doesn't make you a buccaneer prince capable of running 20-200 swashbucklers who muster like the Monster Manual. You can wander around with your friends, but only an 8th level fighter can build up even a 30-nomad band. And even if you clear the Moathouse in Hommlet and run it as your personal mansion, you don't get a free army. Even if that much mercenary talent was available, on that man-to-man level you'd run up against Charisma limits well before that point. <br /><br />For what it's worth, that 15- to 30-person warband seems to be the limit at which man-to-man starts bumping up on Chainmail scale anyway. Before name level, you're just a big adventuring party, whether you have a house and uniforms or not.<br /><br />But blah blah, BTB. Presumably a player-created variant could support "starter packs" of the various Rough Men types, and that would be an awesome way to do it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-25216063307456224642012-04-27T16:18:20.749-05:002012-04-27T16:18:20.749-05:00i'm down with thati'm down with thatColehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09873430636366896071noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-53006062177712899922012-04-27T16:01:02.949-05:002012-04-27T16:01:02.949-05:00This is a really good setup, and I need to sit dow...This is a really good setup, and I need to sit down and do a post about how all of these tie into my campaign setting, but I'm not sure yet where to start.Mirandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10745062840676790649noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-7625738606638968682012-04-27T16:00:29.246-05:002012-04-27T16:00:29.246-05:00In my campaign they're all warriors who are po...In my campaign they're all warriors who are possessed by the Devil.Mirandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10745062840676790649noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-45398094678412023502012-04-27T15:47:12.924-05:002012-04-27T15:47:12.924-05:00For berserkers proper, may I recommend "unrea...For berserkers proper, may I recommend "unrealistically severe mass ergotism?"Colehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09873430636366896071noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-7303263084650836832012-04-27T15:14:25.687-05:002012-04-27T15:14:25.687-05:00Right and they even had a whole region given over ...Right and they even had a whole region given over to the anarchy of the Bandit Kingdoms (at least in the published version).Chris Kutalikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01414743509426875792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-36708303906520003762012-04-27T15:12:22.856-05:002012-04-27T15:12:22.856-05:00Isn't it though?
In general where the rules a...Isn't it though?<br /><br />In general where the rules are the weakest is with the "entry-level" domain game stuff. The ins and outs of owning a ship, running a caravan, leading a band of nomads, etc. I mean of course you can--and should--make your own up for your campaigns but it would be nice to have a wee bit more support for it.Chris Kutalikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01414743509426875792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-5560338261742515202012-04-27T15:04:42.215-05:002012-04-27T15:04:42.215-05:00A cogent observation. It seems that almost all th...A cogent observation. It seems that almost all the historical eras that produced a lot of "adventures" came at times of the breakdown of old social structures (if not necessarily an acocalypse). I've read that the Anglo-Saxon bands that (maybe) invaded Britain arose as populations caused the old class system to fall apart. The musketeers can from largely de-landed nobiility as greater nobility cobbled up the domains of lesser. There were American mercenaries from the South in foreign wars after the Civil War. The ronin of the early Tokugawa Shogunate, etc.Treyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04647628467658839351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-63727331805963809602012-04-27T14:46:09.992-05:002012-04-27T14:46:09.992-05:00When you consider that D&D was written because...When you consider that D&D was written because/for the Greyhawk campaign originally, and Greyhawk certainly suffered from war and lawlessness in full measure, it all fits.Michael S/Chgowizhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052820400496340137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-76162894784684437582012-04-27T14:45:10.035-05:002012-04-27T14:45:10.035-05:00It's very cool. Much more dynamic than either ...It's very cool. Much more dynamic than either the endless "medieval" dream or the bombed-out Bakshi readings of our text.<br /><br />The lack of rules for a PC becoming a bandit/dervish chief is interesting. Unless you go the ranger lord route, you still need to buy a house to get the guys in the first place. Otherwise you'd have bandit tribes put together from scratch by especially charismatic 5th level fighters -- which BTB doesn't happen. To start a tribe you need to burn or conquer a castle. D&D just doesn't go the other way.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-13772758988497649052012-04-27T14:27:18.265-05:002012-04-27T14:27:18.265-05:00Hmm again maybe the strongholds are conquests by t...Hmm again maybe the strongholds are conquests by these band? <br /><br />Just realized that the Muslim-Byzantine wars fit exactly into the era John mention's first(7th-8th century). Neat.Chris Kutalikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01414743509426875792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-71089115163467319992012-04-27T14:27:10.200-05:002012-04-27T14:27:10.200-05:00Yep, a medieval sort of "Deadwood" is th...Yep, a medieval sort of "Deadwood" is the way I have seen the 'village' where players rest up between adventures ever since I laid eyes on that show.Stefan Poaghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08192911890556534923noreply@blogger.com