tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post4059283191540535068..comments2024-03-25T21:52:03.310-05:00Comments on Hill Cantons: The Distant Mirror of Fantasy ReligionChris Kutalikhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01414743509426875792noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-66009510976330777652013-03-10T17:49:48.885-05:002013-03-10T17:49:48.885-05:00I'm trolling the net drumming up interest for ...I'm trolling the net drumming up interest for my novel in progress, The Acts of Simon Magus, and you looked like someone who may find it of interest. It's an epic historical fantasy from the point of view of Christianity's greatest enemy, examining the events and characters responsible for the rise of Christianity and its consequences for the world. It has been an exhilarating trip trying to get inside the mind of people from that time, so different from and so alike ourselves, with an eye to providing a unique perspective on modern issues such as abortion ( http://simonmagus.com/readings/derdekea-trouble ) and same-sex passion and repression ( http://simonmagus.com/readings/unorthodox-jew/ ). Here is a draft for my upcoming Indiegogo campaign, including video and link to some readings. All comments and suggestions welcome! http://simonmagus.com/indiegogo http://simonmagus.com/readings-2Glen Cramhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17782934715039715911noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-46939199146124205972012-05-09T16:36:36.517-05:002012-05-09T16:36:36.517-05:00One thing I have noticed is that my views about re...One thing I have noticed is that my views about religion (in the campaign, real life is roughly the same other than the fact we are members of a Reform Synagogue) have shifted a little. <br /><br />The more we play, the more detail accumulates about the HC in general. The recent importation of the Catholic cargo cult reminded my how much my descriptions of the dominant local religion have shifted away from pseudo-Christianity and more into an entity in its own right. <br /><br />There is still, however, a very large whiff of social construction and a great yawning question about the actual nature of the gods in the campaign.Chris Kutalikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01414743509426875792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-5887141617588486322012-05-09T16:18:59.717-05:002012-05-09T16:18:59.717-05:00@Chris: Thanks. :)
@Richard: Thanks for caring. ...@Chris: Thanks. :)<br /><br />@Richard: Thanks for caring. :)Timeshadowshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09952601433965644275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-27942715022551640232012-05-09T15:04:22.369-05:002012-05-09T15:04:22.369-05:00@timeshadows @chris: wow, people complained about ...@timeshadows @chris: wow, people complained about that? I have to say, that has a pretty chilling effect on discussion.<br /><br />I've been enjoying reading a bit about Chris as an author/person, not just about the games. Which are, I suppose, social games? I guess I prefer my socialising to be with people I know, to some extent..<br /><br />Thanks for responding here. I'm sorry you got grief for saying something personal.richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13517340075234811323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-27902120766855381332012-05-09T11:47:25.955-05:002012-05-09T11:47:25.955-05:00It was an ugly little incident. I really dislike t...It was an ugly little incident. I really dislike this attitude you hear from readers a little too often about ONLY posting gaming related matters. We are--or should be--rounded individuals and politics, religion, and other weighty matters will come to bear even if we pretend to never address them.Chris Kutalikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01414743509426875792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-64138694072247454442012-05-09T10:00:24.272-05:002012-05-09T10:00:24.272-05:00@Richard: I merely cited text in Genesis and other...@Richard: I merely cited text in Genesis and other books, and thanked G-d for the blessing of having been able to go to Minneapolis to visit Jeff Berry and the Tekumel folks there. At the time, I had a feedback option, and I actually received something like 23 negative reactions from readers. There were a few comments, too, which I was thankful for, as the individuals at least had the courage to attach their IDs to their displeasure. It seems I removed the post. Here is a subsequent mention:<br /><br />http://thegrandtapestry.blogspot.com/2011/01/pre-session-warm-up.html<br /><br />Thanks for your interest.Timeshadowshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09952601433965644275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-27613999857732148522012-05-09T04:27:15.947-05:002012-05-09T04:27:15.947-05:00This is an old, old thread. Just in case anyone...This is an old, old thread. Just in case anyone's still watching:<br /><br />I am not religious or spiritual at all, and that lack gets in the way both of my world building and my work as a historian - I have a hard time thinking about religious reasons for people doing things, I tend to look for "underlying" economic or self-interest or whatever reasons, as if those were somehow less learned and more fundamental. I know, I'm an idiot.<br /><br />So I tend to understand the religions I do include in games as purely social constructs. And I am not wedded to pseudo-Christianity at all: if I think it's worth adding a religion it'll be a royal/imperial cult like the Church of Ming or something based off Balinese ancestor worship or spirit mediumship or Kami or something, perhaps because I want the players to have to work at it as much as I will have to - the worst thing for a game, I think, is when a player believes they have more familiarity with the world than the DM.<br /><br />@timeshadows: I would love to know what you said that got such a reaction. I promise not to jump down your throat regardless of what you say - I'm actually having a hard time imagining doing that to anybody who is sharing their beliefs.richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13517340075234811323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-22586670307763292462011-04-22T08:50:35.514-05:002011-04-22T08:50:35.514-05:00The religions in my games tend to resemble somethi...The religions in my games tend to resemble something like Shinto mixed with the European grimoire tradition. Or Greco-Roman religion crossed with Voudon. Or <a href="http://zompist.com/pagan.htm" rel="nofollow">this</a> processed through the Scots-Irish-Manx-Welsh-Cornish-Breton fairy-faith. Or all of that. At least, that's what I try to get them to look like. It's been that way ever since I understood what Gloranthan religion was like, and I wanted to do <i>that</i>.faoladhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03691952430041394614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-45095999726355456232011-04-21T23:10:50.589-05:002011-04-21T23:10:50.589-05:00Really interesting question. My in-game religions ...Really interesting question. My in-game religions tend to be effectively cardboard cutouts of a massive polyglot of religions. Except occasionally something comes out that's a bit eerie. The eerie stuff always seems to involve masks, which definitely comes, in my case, from Ancient Greek religion (the real stuff, not the nice little myths everyone learns in middle school). I don't know whether that touches on my psyche or on my views of organized religion or on my views of actual religion, but I can, at least, isolate where the imagery comes from: the Cthonic blood religions of pre-Classical Greece and the tragedy plays of Classical Greece.<br /><br />So, I guess, it goes beyond the bounds of my own time, but still based firmly in Western culture, to answer the question you posed.Matt Finchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07678557558458924177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-74743476950979937442011-04-21T22:02:03.277-05:002011-04-21T22:02:03.277-05:00ckutalik: Thank you for both of those. :)
The Gl...ckutalik: Thank you for both of those. :)<br /><br />The Glorantha 2e was a wonderful early example to me of what a dedicated setting could produce. If I'd been more into BC(E) history at the time, it may have sucked me in completely.<br /><br />As for the other: Not surprising, just disappointing.<br />--Thanks again.Timeshadowshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09952601433965644275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-44280225598243353862011-04-21T20:57:32.141-05:002011-04-21T20:57:32.141-05:00@Brad
My mother is frequently right, and she has t...@Brad<br />My mother is frequently right, and she has the social grace not to rub it in. Too much. <br /><br />@Trollsmyth<br />"Actually, put that way, I think my gods reflect my political attitudes much, much more than my religious ones."<br /><br />That is what I am getting on about. It's not just about your religious views per se, but our worldviews in general that get wrapped into our creations--even if its subtle enough that we don't recognize them all the time. I have giant dollops of my politics and cultural prejudices mixed into the setting at every turn. <br /><br />@Doc<br />I can get that and respect it too. I was just trying to pry a little under my own lid and get at what was pushing my own ideas.<br /><br />@Timeshadows<br />I think that that drive is important, it infuses your work with a deeper sense of personal importance. And that's a good thing, as you get the impression that it is the same with MARB and Greg Stafford. <br /><br />Side note: I think it was way rotten how people reacted on your own blog about your expression of your spiritual beliefs a few months back. Shameful.Chris Kutalikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01414743509426875792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-1077186754887190292011-04-21T20:48:27.401-05:002011-04-21T20:48:27.401-05:00@Roger
"It is set in an interregnum between p...@Roger<br />"It is set in an interregnum between prophesied empires, when the nature of the coming Fifth and Last Ruling Race of Man, the Iron Kindred, is hotly debated and dogmatized."<br /><br />That actually sounds pretty intriguing, have you written about this?<br /><br />@Sea<br />"Though in my current campaign, the gods, most of them anyway, are dead. Religion still flourishes however."<br /><br />Do you have divine magic? How does that work? In the HC divine magic is something of a mystery and its a toss up if the gods exist and if they do what their true nature is. <br /><br />@Desert<br />I could write a whole post about the truly inspired bullshiting at our table. Hey...<br /><br />@James C<br />Interesting, well there's a point against my point. <br /><br />Again as above the ambivalence of my setting though mirrors my own. There were funny moments in the first phase of the campaign in Austin where one of the cleric PC followers of the Morning Star Society was arguing with a devoutly atheist NPC thief, the Black Ratter, about the self-evidence of the gods through divine magic. A funny exchange that I can't do justice to here (especially after more of that wine).Chris Kutalikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01414743509426875792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-37774863858492485302011-04-21T20:29:41.015-05:002011-04-21T20:29:41.015-05:00the thing to keep in mind though, is while you mig...the thing to keep in mind though, is while you might have an incredibly indepth idea for some deep theme using religion... well if your players aren't into it, then it's going to go nowhere. Sometimes you have to swim in the shallow waters whether you want to or not.<br /><br />Lazarus Lupin<br />http://strangespanner.blogspot.com/<br />art and reviewLazarus Lupinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13498179029332944165noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-79365520709826703562011-04-21T18:18:42.692-05:002011-04-21T18:18:42.692-05:00In Urutsk, I am saying something I feel is importa...In Urutsk, I am saying something I feel is important on the subject, but folks have never liked what I had to say other than it made for an interesting mythos. > weak smile <Timeshadowshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09952601433965644275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-69100262048351585352011-04-21T16:54:54.767-05:002011-04-21T16:54:54.767-05:00I'm usually not a huge fan of either campaign ...I'm usually not a huge fan of either campaign settings or fiction that exaggerates negative aspects of religion for comic effect. This may well stem from my personal respect for spirituality, even if the people in my life follow a different religion from my own.DocStouthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13239520630901083975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-59850880133160481632011-04-21T16:43:00.425-05:002011-04-21T16:43:00.425-05:00Mine's about as far from my personal religious...Mine's about as far from my personal religious experience as you can probably get; I've got a pantheon of Elder "gods" based around an All-mother and Her eldest offspring, who tend to represent dangerous and chthonian aspects of nature (both human and the sort that produces spring rains and summer hurricanes) while the god-gods are (mostly) very much terrestrial beings trying to craft a new and better society.<br /><br />Actually, put that way, I think my gods reflect my political attitudes much, much more than my religious ones. ;ptrollsmythhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01895349218958093151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-43739468090234148182011-04-21T16:16:54.341-05:002011-04-21T16:16:54.341-05:00I just hand-wave that shit and go with ubergeneric...I just hand-wave that shit and go with ubergeneric pantheonism...the one time I actually implemented a legitimate religion in-game, based on the Catholic Church, one of the players complained endlessly about it. So, you get Zeus and Odin and whatever.<br /><br />I remember reading some religious paper that kept talking about "pantheism" when they clearly meant "patheonism". I mentioned this, pointing out that pantheism is more akin to monism or animism, not whatever it was the writer was talking about. The writer in question grew angry and said I was "splitting hairs" and was also mistaken about my use of terminology. Chris, your mama was right: don't talk about religion with people because they're frequently uneducated-stupid about it.Bradhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06596247660364673313noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-64426028119163709912011-04-21T16:16:12.119-05:002011-04-21T16:16:12.119-05:00My campaign world and I are 180 degrees out of syn...My campaign world and I are 180 degrees out of synch. In my game world the gods are real and while baffling, remote and mind-blowingly alien at times, they do indeed actively move the levers of the Universe. <br /><br />As for me, religion has generally meant very little to me. I see it as a construct of people and therefore reflective of how people act, think and feel more than some divinely inspired thing. I accept that the Universe may have an architect or architects, but I'm damned if I know what He, She or They were really on about.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-77746186471151847052011-04-21T15:44:12.235-05:002011-04-21T15:44:12.235-05:00I think I have learned more about your life, Chris...I think I have learned more about your life, Chris, on your blog this week then I did in my years of gaming with you. Lol.<br /><br />It has been years since I last was a DM so I can't speak directly to this but I did play for a while in a campaign with a serious Celtic influence. The DM was pretty into Celtic neo-paganism so it definitely had a heavy personal vibe. I liked the heart he put into that game it added something.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-42235060485218901102011-04-21T15:42:24.167-05:002011-04-21T15:42:24.167-05:00I do have fun extemporizing (i.e., bullshitting) a...I do have fun extemporizing (i.e., bullshitting) about the background, and I enjoy the give-and-take about the Fourth Dynasty of the Hyperborians, reform vs. orthodox sun-god worship, the Lady Tyche, or what have you. I'm glad you let me have a little input into the campaign background, whether it's religion or something else (such as the Black Lotus Society) -- although when we start doing this, our wives (at least mine) look at us with bemusement, irritation, or some combination thereof.<br /><br />I think such intricate detail about an in-game institution (religious or otherwise), right down to the hair-splitting, is not just reflective of the here & now, but indicative of human nature.Desert Scribehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13862907749003106864noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-21901321293068335732011-04-21T15:40:56.156-05:002011-04-21T15:40:56.156-05:00I like interesting religions in games, especially ...I like interesting religions in games, especially if they challenge modern assumptions of faith.<br /><br />Though in my current campaign, the gods, most of them anyway, are dead. Religion still flourishes however.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-79838317795827217142011-04-21T15:27:47.193-05:002011-04-21T15:27:47.193-05:00My campaign's church is a slightly tweaked ver...My campaign's church is a slightly tweaked version of Christianity - no Messiah, but a revelation, a mother and child, a holy protector and prophet, a traitor who founded the competing Eastern Church. It is set in an interregnum between prophesied empires, when the nature of the coming Fifth and Last Ruling Race of Man, the Iron Kindred, is hotly debated and dogmatized.<br /><br />There's more history/philosophy of religion than personal experience though; my parents were an agnostic and a fairly conventional Episopalian. If that answers your question :)Roger G-Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08594440701279968693noreply@blogger.com