tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post6999133455308004517..comments2024-03-25T21:52:03.310-05:00Comments on Hill Cantons: Pointcrawling UndercitiesChris Kutalikhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01414743509426875792noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-56986649072631789662012-06-08T15:14:20.313-05:002012-06-08T15:14:20.313-05:00Wow. Great article as usual, Chris. I've got m...Wow. Great article as usual, Chris. I've got my work cut out for me reading the archives of everything I've missed, but I'm sure it'll be a pleasure working my way through yours. Might even find the inspiration to bang out an article or two myself in the coming weeks, get back into it.DocStouthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13239520630901083975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-62177598612561826162012-06-04T09:11:05.653-05:002012-06-04T09:11:05.653-05:00No, not at all. The exits points can be directly c...No, not at all. The exits points can be directly connected or, if needed, they can be a long windy tunnel. Just like how when doing traditional dungeon mapping with graph paper, the exits off the sheets don't have to match up 100%.Hedgehobbithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17606283586332210195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-44011852175004541382012-06-01T08:33:31.943-05:002012-06-01T08:33:31.943-05:00As a big fan of getting things off the key and dir...As a big fan of getting things off the key and directly onto the map, I love this. Are the exit points standardized like a geomorph?Chris Kutalikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01414743509426875792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-64616682056998936632012-05-31T21:57:25.192-05:002012-05-31T21:57:25.192-05:00I think this is an official Infocom one: http://ga...I think this is an official Infocom one: http://gallery.guetech.org/zork1_invisiclues/map-4-5-6-7.jpgChris Kutalikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01414743509426875792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-65823505793362500192012-05-31T21:55:03.382-05:002012-05-31T21:55:03.382-05:00I've been contemplating an interesting megadun...I've been contemplating an interesting megadungeon idea where its really a collection of gates going back and forth and double back again many times across a dozen or so planes of existence. Not every plane is, of course, an underground complex; but, the pointcrawl idea may just work. Since Euclidean geography need not be assumed between the points, this is sure to drive the players batty.<br /><br />Of course, I went ahead and just threw the idea at the players in-game last session. without thinking it through. Now I gotta deliver the goods.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12508594597349248576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-84999090228188315352012-05-31T21:53:40.502-05:002012-05-31T21:53:40.502-05:00It didn't sound like a complaint, I was just c...It didn't sound like a complaint, I was just clarifying. Enjoy North Texas next week, Norm.Chris Kutalikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01414743509426875792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-61363124867661102332012-05-31T21:31:44.674-05:002012-05-31T21:31:44.674-05:00That's exactly what I thought of: maps made wh...That's exactly what I thought of: maps made while playing various Infocom games. I used to draw them almost the same way with the box/arrows - where did that come from?<br /><br />Here's someone's fantastic version of the map for <a href="http://almy.us/image/dungeon.jpg" rel="nofollow">Zork I </a>Zenopus Archiveshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14069501995927451558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-1264030739136050822012-05-31T20:04:46.107-05:002012-05-31T20:04:46.107-05:00I'm afraid it's already in the "not l...I'm afraid it's already in the "not likely to be reread" box in the attic, so I can't get past the sleeping kids to remind myself why I didn't like the ruins, but the town itself turned me off because of the degree of anachronism. I think that reinforces for me some of the value of minimalism - Lesserton just so doesn't fit the vibe of any game I can see myself running, and if the author had used 1/4 as many words to describe it there'd have been room enough for me to make it fit.<br /><br />Since now at least I'm home and can look at Thunderspire, here are my thoughts taken from it: it's in 3 tiers, color-coded for depth, routes between sites drawn as lines; one page map, 1.5 pages of brief descriptions of the 16 labeled sites, and less than one page of rules for exploring / getting lost / expanding the labyrinth. Then 5 of the 16 labeled sites are expanded in some detail, and have many of the flaws of a published 4e adventure - but it's pointcrawly.<br /><br />Oh, and that was meant to be "Rubble Fields".Tom Hudsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14295247089905712338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-70893213294843934182012-05-31T19:48:38.469-05:002012-05-31T19:48:38.469-05:00from earlier post
> Well I was imprecise "...from earlier post <br />> Well I was imprecise "doing it right" is not meant to be "doing it correctly" (whatever that may be), but "doing it in a interesting and satisfying fashion".<br /><br />Yeah, that's what I meant / did not intend my prev post to sound like "complaint". What you've done here, is what I was thinking about.<br /><br />Great series, look fwd to next one.Norman J. Harman Jr.https://www.blogger.com/profile/01319655075997712313noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-32932466553629208882012-05-31T16:13:34.991-05:002012-05-31T16:13:34.991-05:00Now that you mention it, these do look a lot like ...Now that you mention it, these do look a lot like the flowcharts we used to draw for Zork and all those Scott Adams games. Given how obsessed I was with them it totally must have influenced how I was imaging this.Chris Kutalikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01414743509426875792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-35369887739712268192012-05-31T16:08:05.074-05:002012-05-31T16:08:05.074-05:00Exactly, that's how it works on my site maps.Exactly, that's how it works on my site maps.Chris Kutalikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01414743509426875792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-30033611959428414122012-05-31T15:08:30.917-05:002012-05-31T15:08:30.917-05:00This also looks a lot like how old text adventure ...This also looks a lot like how old text adventure games were mapped out, so it appeals to me on that level too.thekelvingreenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01928260185408072124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-59151636603015892792012-05-31T15:05:28.577-05:002012-05-31T15:05:28.577-05:00I would assume that the specific human catacombs m...I would assume that the specific human catacombs map would make the differences between the exits clear, but I may have misunderstood the concept here.<br /><br />Misunderstood or not, I do like this approach. I like and understand maps, but I don't have the patience for a detailed map of every single five foot square or six mile hex, so the pointcrawl is the perfect compromise for me.thekelvingreenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01928260185408072124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-33663669322428405052012-05-31T14:22:18.576-05:002012-05-31T14:22:18.576-05:00This is pretty cool. I might steal this frame work...This is pretty cool. I might steal this frame work to try and sort out the mess that is my attempt at a N'kia themed megadungeon. Right now the notes are all over the place.BlUsKrEEmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05050270487818381832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-56475623729510572702012-05-31T14:18:55.275-05:002012-05-31T14:18:55.275-05:00I do something very similar but I dispense with th...I do something very similar but I dispense with the graph paper entirely. Instead, each point of the dungeon gets it's own card (5"x7") which contains the map (a small group of rooms), the key and room descriptions and a list of exits from that area. The exit points can go to any other card or to the surface and lists how far the next card is and what type of exit it is (pit, stairs, tunnel, chute, etc). Doing it this way means I don't have to switch between the map and descriptions during gameplay (as all the relevant information is in one place) but it also means I can change the layout of the dungeon just by changing the connections via the exit points. Finally, you can even remove area you don't like or entire sections just by making the exit to one area go straight to the surface.Hedgehobbithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17606283586332210195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-19393304839231538222012-05-31T14:08:04.495-05:002012-05-31T14:08:04.495-05:00Good point about coloring/keying. Color coding by ...Good point about coloring/keying. Color coding by historical layer (or some other major thematic division) is important as you are both representing: 1. the vertical dimension at a glance and 2. highly distinct discrete areas presumably with different architectural styles, denizens, structural stability, etc. <br /><br />The exits are just abstract markers that correspond to more obvious places on the traditional map. (Unless there is a good reason to make them confusing such as a warren of tunnels that look similar or branch back into each other). So say if they are mapping it accurately they will note that the deep set of stairs on the northeast side of this site seems to go down to the Hyperborean citadel and the chute in the southwest goes down to the old Aqueduct. <br /><br />In my actual maps I tend to pencil whatever number I have the connection keyed to on the traditional map just under where I have the line drawn.Chris Kutalikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01414743509426875792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-39844810718680650192012-05-31T13:53:55.159-05:002012-05-31T13:53:55.159-05:00What left you cold about Lesserton? It definitely ...What left you cold about Lesserton? It definitely conjured up elements I loved about RQ's Pavis/The Big Rubble, but strangely found myself liking the civilized little town and its weird subsystems more (no pun intended) then the ruins themselves.Chris Kutalikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01414743509426875792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-16731208313739505492012-05-31T12:44:17.861-05:002012-05-31T12:44:17.861-05:00The only things I'd say is make a determinatio...The only things I'd say is make a determination (for yourself--and maybe you already have) about when information should be "keyed" to a color or code and when it should just be written on there.<br /><br />Also, I'm sure you know, but how do the PCs tell the difference between exits 2 and 3 from the human catacombs? IS there another descriptor?Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1389986049507804094.post-91158445846360085302012-05-31T12:18:56.687-05:002012-05-31T12:18:56.687-05:00Just for two reference points:
Lesserton & Mo...Just for two reference points:<br /><br />Lesserton & Mor left me cold for many reasons, but the ideas of hexcrawling a ruined city could be adapted for some parts - your "Rubble Feels" reminded me of it.<br /><br />4th Edition H2, Thunderspire Labyrinth, is an underground pointcrawl.<br /><br />Looking forward to seeing where you're headed & adapting your ideas myself.Tom Hudsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14295247089905712338noreply@blogger.com